In Spring 2003 Sue Mayes decided on a complete change of career and lifestyle, moving from successful City HR Manager roles to Devon to take time out and without necessarily a career in mind. She wrote about her cautionary tale in People Matters in the following year. We now bring her story up to date.
Q. Looking back over five years and its challenges, would you have still made the move?
A. Yes, I have never regretted it despite the uncertainties and difficulties. When I visit friends and family in London and the South East I am always glad to come back home.
Q. After working with the Devon County Council, you and your future husband went into the hospitality trade and took over a pub in 2004. How did you get into this? Did it work?
A. During my sabbatical in 2002-2003, I attended a short residential course that helped me think about exploring other areas I enjoyed. I have always loved entertaining people, live music and good food, and the idea of running a pub was attractive. But financially it proved very difficult, overheads were high and we found ourselves tied into unreasonable terms. For example, it didn't make sense to have to buy lager in bulk from the brewery when you could get it in the cash and carry much cheaper. For the entire 18 months doing this, there was also no relaxation or privacy: I felt I was on display seven days a week. So for any people thinking of finally retiring from the City to run a country pub, my message is to really do your homework well in advance and not to rush into things.
Q. Was it a conscious move to go back into HR?
A Yes: ironically, when running the pub, I was using all my influencing and counselling skills, being discreet and confidential, as well as being a manager; so from the personal point of view, it was a very good learning experience and I didn't really move out of the people business at all. Indeed, I found it interesting that in the sector, many businesses are not wholly compliant with employment and tax requirements. Casual work often means cash in hand.
Q. Why move to HR in Devon County Council?
A .Well, it is the biggest employer in Devon, and indeed was the only one who had been willing to interview me back in 2004 when I was looking for a more junior job. I had a call from my previous boss at the right time.
Q. So what are the differences between HR practice in the City and in DCC?
A.DCC is more procedurally driven, not least because we cover people issues that range from residential homes through to schools - with all the sensitivities. So, although the issues might be similar, I have to be aware not only of what is written down in the policies, but also of custom and practice built up over time. Decisions can then take longer. Also, historically, promotions have tended to be from within. On another point, I am now working with Unions, and sometimes in my opinion they seem simply to want to score points at the expense of individuals they represent. I am working just as hard as in the City but am paid half as much - but the quality of life more than compensates, I work far fewer hours and I enjoy some flexible working from home each week.
Q. Are there signs of change?
A. Yes and I suppose my promotion a couple of months ago, in open competition, does show that DCC is beginning to consider the ways it should do things differently. As one driver of change, schools can now buy in their personnel services from elsewhere if they want, so we need to fight hard to retain them. Value for money is already key, and people with different experiences are being brought in from outside.
Q. How are you managing your own career?
A. Historically, I have not been very good at that, but am improving. I was a bit naive coming down to the South West thinking that there would be plenty of jobs if I needed one. There are jobs, but most are at the minimum wage! The best paid professional work is in Bristol. So, if you are thinking of a career move, do your research first. Now that I am in a more senior post with some influence on strategic policies, I can begin to plan where I would like to be in five years with help from my mentor. My ongoing skills development, especially in influencing and constructive challenge, is going to be important: all the various layers in the Council can mean lots of people want to get involved in a decision! Looking back, I think I should have had more confidence on arrival to ask for explanations of why things are done in certain ways, or indeed what the huge number of three letter abbreviations mean.
Q. What about the HR profession?
A. I have much less time to read the journal, perhaps because there often seems to be the same old stuff repackaged. I had hoped that the function everywhere would gradually stop being the butt of jokes, but this hasn't happened. However, line managers do talk about individual HR people who are good and add value. I hope the CIPD will help change attitudes with its new head being appointed from a commercial background.
Q. Tell me more about mentoring.
A. I asked that a formal arrangement be set up in Autumn 2006. My mentor was my first choice, as a long-serving DCC employee who is highly thought of by both management (HR and corporate) and staff. She has vast experience within the organisation, highly developed interpersonal skills and effectively manages her high profile career whilst working four days a week and raising a young family. The success of the mentoring relationship has much to do with my choice of mentor, and the clarity of the arrangement between us and with my manager. She is very challenging during our meetings, and I keep clear notes of the main topics of discussion and action points which result. In this way, we have accurate records of the ground covered and keep to the remit, avoiding the "coffee and chat" which these arrangements can become. The head of HR is holding her responsible for my recent promotion! It helps that she works in a separate area to me, although this may change as we are now peers and will be meeting regularly as part of the management team. However, my new manager is happy that the arrangement continues for now and while I become established in my new role. The mentoring arrangement document I produced has formed the basis for formal mentoring arrangements elsewhere within the directorate now, so it's gratifying that something that has worked so well for me has spread.